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Interesting discussion regarding the FotWTA on the recent posted minutes from the recent teleconference meeting.
I think the Friends is a great idea and gets fundraising away from the WTA BOD’s responsibility. The WTA board should be responsible to host a state shoot, govern the zone shoots, in recent years run a gun club and assist the clubs as needed to run registered events. The FotWTA to me is like a booster club to a school. It should be separate entity, that the WTA board has no control or governance over. They should be able to pay their own bills, pay their own taxes, run the 501c component of their group, obtain their own raffle license, etc.
The WTA then makes requests when they need help improving or building new things for the state organization. (example – light for trap fields at home grounds) not to ever pay WTA bills or general operating costs.
I do believe the FotWTA should have at least a 7 member BOD’s to govern their affairs. They should have to post minutes of their meetings and be very transparent in their affairs.
The WTA most likely will not be in favor as they will not have control of the money but if all the parties are in in for the right reason, to better the organization and the membership, it should be fine
No worries Ken, I don’t expect a response. Heck my last post on August 4 is still waiting for the answers to the questions posted. It’s why I no longer volunteer time, donate items or money. I’ll just use the facility the very few times I do and my support will come through entry fees.
The original post was done on 8/31 and it is now 9/8. I don’t feel that it is unreasonable to expect a response and it shouldn’t take 9 days. The thread turned into a little bit of a rant but the original questions are still there and still unanswered. That my friends is the problem ……
So here is the big problem. The recent minutes got posted and then of course there were some questions which Don got the ball rolling by posting some questions. Exactly …. questions. That is one of the purposes of this forum is to post and then OUR BOD’s can post answers for the entire membership in addition to the one who posted questions.
The famous line not only used by this board but also past boards is … if you don’t like it, get involved and get on the board. Not that he needs defending, but Don has done that and then some. He has served in multiple positions multiple times on the board. He has gone above and beyond to serve the shooters and IMO has earned the right to post a question or two. I also didn’t think Don was bitching with his initial post but rather asked questions. But that is also another problem. Just because you question things and ask questions doesn’t mean your complaining. If a few directors would ever post or answer some questions that are posted, it just might eliminate some of the division and harsh feelings between the board and some of the membership.
I think Amy deserves a ton of credit and our thanks for her efforts. I appreciate that as there is no secretary currently she is willing to take and post the minutes. BUT if Amy didn’t do it, if there is a meeting, the President just assigns the task to another board member to fill the position for that meeting. Generally how it works on boards when someone is absent.
No doubt that serving on the board is a very thankless job. Trust me as I know that better than most. But the board does work or the membership and answering questions is part of the job. What difference does it make if a member call a director or posts the question here to be answered. In the end the questions still need to be answered.
I applaud the board for what they are trying to do and for their efforts. But there are questions that could be raised. You could question the so called financial statement handed out at the state shoot annual meeting. I’m sure that the way the by laws were recently changed and how the director changes has gone down could be challenged if someone wanted to take that on, especially financially if pursued through legal course. But what does that serve.
If the board doesn’t want to answer questions on the forum or doesn’t like the membership engaging in dialogue, then get rid of the forum, save the money and just acknowledge you occasionally may get a post or two on TS.com.
Oh and before it is brought up. I’m more involved in the SCTP stuff now and have previously served on the board for over 10 plus years. Been there … done that.
Sorry Tate, Been there and Done that. Director for 10 plus years, also State Shoot Tournament Director for 5 years and for many years set up and the moderated the website and discussion forum.
Just a question. If you can’t log on to the site for just 5 minutes and answer a question or two, how could I expect you to be able to take a phone call if your so busy ?
Couple weeks later, still waiting for a response from the moderator or another director. Guess I won’t waste my time asking about results to the Zone Shoots.
My question to the forum moderator would be pretty simple and straight forward. Why do we have a forum, or even better, why have a website ? We read in the minutes about how the WTA has no money. How do we justify paying for something that a. The members don’t use, and b. the directors don’t use or respond to questions when posted.
The current BOD’s wanted the forum back after it was shut down, but then they don’t respond or answer questions. They don’t use it for updates. Last year there were lots of updates posted about what went on up at homegrounds. This forum while a great tool, is grossly underused.
So my question : why do we have a forum ????
Goal has been reached and in fact blown out of the water. Now the WI SCTP State Shoot is well over 1400 athletes and extra slots have been opened up on Friday to handle the overwhelming demand. Such great news for the growth of our sport and high school shooting.
Brings back the original question. What is the SCTP doing that the WTA and ATA are not to see such tremendous growth ?
First, I don’t need to be told that the BOD’s are volunteers. I am very well aware of that. I spent 10 plus years as both a Alt. Delegate and Zone Director . I also did 5 years as the tournament director for the state shoot. Trust me I get the commitment. Plus one of my duties was to manage an earlier version of the forum. Might not have liked or agreed with the answers or my opinions, but I always responded to the members when they asked questions. That doesn’t always happen now. In fact the only time you get a response is when the board members feel like they are being picked on.
When I shot registered, if i was lucky to win any money it generally was paid to me on the day of the shoot. Now you don’t want to do that. Maybe if you came on the forum and explained the reasoning behind the decision on how your doing payouts, maybe it would have saved some problems.
Last year, I was up to the homegrounds for two events, the SCTP State Championships and the 5 Man Team shoot. Each time, I made sure to thank the board members and special volunteers that were present and that I saw for their efforts.
The current board were the ones that wanted the forum yet they never use it, truth be told not much has changed in that respect from board to board. My question is why do you even have a forum if you don’t want to use it ?
You have made the point that you are running the board and the WTA as a business. Part of that responsibility is customer service. You read things in the minutes and how your doing business, it appears their is a trust issue. Might not be accurate but the perception is the reality.
To the homegrounds, it is a very nice facility and everyone should want it t be a success. You can argue all you want about past mistakes, decisions by boards both past and present, and how things have and are being done. The members need the board but … the board needs the members too.
Better to have pissed off shooters than happy shooters I guess is his philosophy. Makes no sense. Like you said, the Otto’s are very good and have done thousands of shoots. Should be a non-issue unless you don’t trust those doing the work. If that’s the case maybe the treasurer needs to be at the shoots to then do his job.
Tate,
I have no problem if we disagree. People should be able to have different points of view and still have respectful dialogue. My thoughts are based off of running a state shoot for 5 years which utilized high school age people to work. Plus I had it a little more difficult as I had to deal with hand sets verses pat traps. That required another type of training in addition to scoring and basic rules.
All I can tell you is my first year was a bit of a challenge as I had several schools and we were implementing the program for utilizing the kids. Years 2-5 were for the most part a breeze. After year one I had one school and never had a problem getting labor, in fact they searched me out to get a job.
As for the SCTP deal. I have no problem with what you charge. But if a discount isn’t given, then the expectation is the labor that works the shoot is ready to go, fully trained, and does an outstanding job based on fee paid, it’s not a training day for the labor working for the state shoot.
I would have loved to have had a day like the SCTP event to use as training. Would have made the training so much easier and better for the state shoot and the first day of the state shoot would not have been so difficult.
To think a kid is going to donate his time IMO is a little crazy. While should the kid donate to the school football program to have the school then turn around and charge a sports fee to play football. Why should that kid not be compensated, they have the most difficult job, long day out in all kinds of elements, have to be alert, good focus, deal with the people, etc. In effect to a great degree the trapline labor controls the integrity of the competition. But there is also the old saying as well — You do get what you pay for.
I would recommend to any kid not to touch the job for less than $100 a day. Then I’d make sure before I take the job that there is proper number of help to survive the week and do the best job that the shooters deserve.
How much help — 5 workers for every two traps.
Here is a second question for you all. How can the board charge the SCTP $27 per hundred but only charge $24 per hundred for the 5 man team shoot. . Since the 5man had a very generous sponsor, both events seem to cover the same costs yet one event is charged more, which I can’t figure as I must be missing something.
If a non shooter wants to be a member of the WTA not a real challenge for it to happen. For $30 (ATA membership and $10 WTA membership) and your good to go.
Its not their only stupid decision lately. Hopefully they can also get their labor issue resolved. Especially since that labor has to work other events during the year an needs to know what they are doing after all you don’t expect the labor to train at your event if the organization is run like a business.
